Comments on: SYMpathy for the scooter industry http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry Too fancy for Hoboken and too hot for church. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:09:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: femsatronic http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6739 femsatronic Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:38:05 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6739 Steve is a great guy. Too bad. Carter might be a little back woods to handle SYM long term. Steve is a great guy. Too bad. Carter might be a little back woods to handle SYM long term.

]]> By: Those Darn McCabes http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6732 Those Darn McCabes Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:36:57 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6732 When American rednecks finally learn to wear woman's clothing and adopt silly walks maybe will have a proper scooter industry. When American rednecks finally learn to wear woman’s clothing and adopt silly walks maybe will have a proper scooter industry.

]]> By: thescooterscoop http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6726 thescooterscoop Wed, 11 Mar 2009 02:37:14 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6726 So... if I understand what you're saying, just because Scootering has "1-900" ads for "Smack my granny fanny", it doesn't mean it will necessarily float here in the USA? So… if I understand what you’re saying, just because Scootering has “1-900″ ads for “Smack my granny fanny”, it doesn’t mean it will necessarily float here in the USA?

]]> By: illnoise http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6722 illnoise Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:39:39 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6722 What works in England won't work here, (thankfully!) But scootering could learn a lot from skateboarding. Skateboarding is also a very cyclical industry with hundreds of small companies selling nearly indistinguishable products. The difference (aside from scale, and unit cost) is that the skateboarding industry realizes that fresh ideas, smart advertising and marketing and participation in the 'scene' are the only tools they have to set them apart from competitors, and attract new customers. What works in England won’t work here, (thankfully!) But scootering could learn a lot from skateboarding. Skateboarding is also a very cyclical industry with hundreds of small companies selling nearly indistinguishable products. The difference (aside from scale, and unit cost) is that the skateboarding industry realizes that fresh ideas, smart advertising and marketing and participation in the ‘scene’ are the only tools they have to set them apart from competitors, and attract new customers.

]]> By: Those Darn McCabes http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6721 Those Darn McCabes Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:21:17 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6721 Beeb, Thanks for sticking your neck out and calling it like you see it! It's frustrating to read bicycle, skate board, and motorcycle magazines and see what hip advertising can do to support a niche-interest/scene and see what is missing here. US scootering doesn't have this critical mass yet and a large part of it is due to how many important businesses just don't get it. Open a copy of the British Scootering magazine and its obvious what the US scooter scene is missing. In the UK businesses trip over themselves to advertise in this magazine and the ads don't look pathetically out of step because they have grown organically out of the British scooter scene. Kymco is guilty of trying to dump ATVs on scooter shops. So they aren't perfect either, but they are a huge improvement over many. It didn't take them long to learn the benifits of supporting enthusiasts. A rising tide raises all boats and all that. Beeb, Thanks for sticking your neck out and calling it like you see it! It’s frustrating to read bicycle, skate board, and motorcycle magazines and see what hip advertising can do to support a niche-interest/scene and see what is missing here.

US scootering doesn’t have this critical mass yet and a large part of it is due to how many important businesses just don’t get it. Open a copy of the British Scootering magazine and its obvious what the US scooter scene is missing. In the UK businesses trip over themselves to advertise in this magazine and the ads don’t look pathetically out of step because they have grown organically out of the British scooter scene.

Kymco is guilty of trying to dump ATVs on scooter shops. So they aren’t perfect either, but they are a huge improvement over many. It didn’t take them long to learn the benifits of supporting enthusiasts. A rising tide raises all boats and all that.

]]> By: Dannys http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6717 Dannys Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:56:34 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6717 Steve, Sincerely all I have to say ts it is truly their loss. They'll never know the impact you would have had or maybe their laurels appear in their eyes, to be bigger than they really are and their ass' are numb. (think Kymco) I'm not sure. Maybe you should go to see Power Sports Factory ! Yes PSF Hear me out first and correct me if I'm wrong. This is just my perception. They represent one of the more stable upcoming Chinese companies in the QJ built Benelli/Andretti line. I know they too are about the numbers but that's a result of an over ambitious attempt to bring us a different and quality alternative to what was available at the time of their creation. Their efforts and excellent product build can't be disputed. Their attempts to differentiate them self from the cookie cutter offerings out there is to be appreciated and admired also.. I think they could benefit from someone with your talents and enthusiasm. I know their aim is true but still seem to lack marketing talent and direction. I would personally and selfishly hate to see them disappear since they represent one more choice with a quality alternative which the industry seems to lack.. Steve,
Sincerely all I have to say ts it is truly their loss. They’ll never know the impact you would have had or maybe their laurels appear in their eyes, to be bigger than they really are and their ass’ are numb. (think Kymco) I’m not sure.
Maybe you should go to see Power Sports Factory ! Yes PSF
Hear me out first and correct me if I’m wrong. This is just my perception.
They represent one of the more stable upcoming Chinese companies in the QJ built Benelli/Andretti line. I know they too are about the numbers but that’s a result of an over ambitious attempt to bring us a different and quality alternative to what was available at the time of their creation. Their efforts and excellent product build can’t be disputed. Their attempts to differentiate them self from the cookie cutter offerings out there is to be appreciated and admired also..
I think they could benefit from someone with your talents and enthusiasm. I know their aim is true but still seem to lack marketing talent and direction. I would personally and selfishly hate to see them disappear since they represent one more choice with a quality alternative which the industry seems to lack..

]]> By: illnoise http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6710 illnoise Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:45:52 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6710 Orin, you're right on target about what needs to be done, and the Taiwan symposium story will explain their goals better. They do have some government support, and it's wise of them to work together toward a distant goal. The question is, can they follow through and keep working together, rather than going for the quick buck on their own? We already have China, we don't need lots of cheap generic scooters, we need a modest number of moderately-priced quality scooters with some original design and branding targeted towards a the wide variety of American customers. Kymco and Genuine are proof that it can work with an American-based importer, and I'm not sure SYM and TGB could do any better on their own, but you're exactly right, if I was working for a Taiwanese company looking to make an impact in America, my goal would be to learn from this (declining) current boom rather than trying to milk it, and build market share and brand-awareness via the small network of top-rate scooter-dedicated dealers that will survive this bust, so when the next boom comes, it's Taiwan that's positioned to take advantage of it. Sadly, you're right again, the mainland Chinese will probably have their act together by the next boom. Orin, you’re right on target about what needs to be done, and the Taiwan symposium story will explain their goals better. They do have some government support, and it’s wise of them to work together toward a distant goal. The question is, can they follow through and keep working together, rather than going for the quick buck on their own? We already have China, we don’t need lots of cheap generic scooters, we need a modest number of moderately-priced quality scooters with some original design and branding targeted towards a the wide variety of American customers.

Kymco and Genuine are proof that it can work with an American-based importer, and I’m not sure SYM and TGB could do any better on their own, but you’re exactly right, if I was working for a Taiwanese company looking to make an impact in America, my goal would be to learn from this (declining) current boom rather than trying to milk it, and build market share and brand-awareness via the small network of top-rate scooter-dedicated dealers that will survive this bust, so when the next boom comes, it’s Taiwan that’s positioned to take advantage of it. Sadly, you’re right again, the mainland Chinese will probably have their act together by the next boom.

]]> By: orino http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6709 orino Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:53:51 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6709 The "you meet the nicest people on a (insert name of bike)" thing isn't going to work if the company has to rely on third parties. Honda has always seen itself as being in the personal mobility business instead of the motorcycle/car/robot business. It probably helped that Honda, like Toyota and Nissan, was directly supported in its efforts by the Japanese government (the most successful command economy in the history of the world). Honda did what it did by establishing its own U.S. distributor, and Honda had a very long-range plan. Honda was patient, knowing it would take years, if not decades, to reach the goals it set for itself. And most of all, Honda knew it had to devote as much time and energy selling the <i>idea</i> of riding as it did selling bikes. Past tense, of course. Now all Honda cares about is flogging Gold Wings and crotch rockets, and the current quarter's bottom line. Never mind those two segments have been in a downward trend for quite a while now. While TGB and SYM make quality products, the only ones with the resources to do what Honda did in the '60s are the mainland Chinese. Geely makes bikes and cars; a sensible plan for them is to start off with a scooter, then be ready when the scooter buyer (who has been treated like family) is ready to move up. Yeah, it probably means these people eventually leave scooters for minivans, but that's where the money is. And as far as I can tell, that's already happening... The “you meet the nicest people on a (insert name of bike)” thing isn’t going to work if the company has to rely on third parties. Honda has always seen itself as being in the personal mobility business instead of the motorcycle/car/robot business. It probably helped that Honda, like Toyota and Nissan, was directly supported in its efforts by the Japanese government (the most successful command economy in the history of the world). Honda did what it did by establishing its own U.S. distributor, and Honda had a very long-range plan. Honda was patient, knowing it would take years, if not decades, to reach the goals it set for itself. And most of all, Honda knew it had to devote as much time and energy selling the idea of riding as it did selling bikes.

Past tense, of course. Now all Honda cares about is flogging Gold Wings and crotch rockets, and the current quarter’s bottom line. Never mind those two segments have been in a downward trend for quite a while now.

While TGB and SYM make quality products, the only ones with the resources to do what Honda did in the ’60s are the mainland Chinese. Geely makes bikes and cars; a sensible plan for them is to start off with a scooter, then be ready when the scooter buyer (who has been treated like family) is ready to move up. Yeah, it probably means these people eventually leave scooters for minivans, but that’s where the money is. And as far as I can tell, that’s already happening…

]]> By: thescooterscoop http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6708 thescooterscoop Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:39:38 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6708 Yeah! :D That picture cracked me up. I had to think about it too... I wasn't drinking, or else I'd have taken my badge off. After I "slept on it", I remembered that I had bought a brand new pack of t-shirts for the show and was happy to have an excuse to show them off! :) I would have never guessed that photo op would have come back to haunt me. Yeah! :D That picture cracked me up.
I had to think about it too… I wasn’t drinking, or else I’d have taken my badge off.

After I “slept on it”, I remembered that I had bought a brand new pack of t-shirts for the show and was happy to have an excuse to show them off! :)

I would have never guessed that photo op would have come back to haunt me.

]]> By: illnoise http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6707 illnoise Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:10:06 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6707 BTW, I couldn't remember why I had a photo of Guzmán stripping, but Steve reminded me he was helping me set my camera white balance. How many other scooter-industry people would go to such lengths to make sure you got a good photo of an Italjet Roller Craft? (I added the caption myself, it was a blank white t-shirt). BTW, I couldn’t remember why I had a photo of Guzmán stripping, but Steve reminded me he was helping me set my camera white balance. How many other scooter-industry people would go to such lengths to make sure you got a good photo of an Italjet Roller Craft?

(I added the caption myself, it was a blank white t-shirt).

]]> By: thescooterscoop http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6703 thescooterscoop Mon, 09 Mar 2009 03:30:29 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6703 My goodness! I'm reading all of this with barely a dry eye. First, to Bryan... Your 2StrokeBuzz has always been the roots of scooter press for me (and others around the world). I'm sure I've said it on more than one occasion, the two biggest influences for TheScooterScoop all those years ago were www.Engadget.com (a geek gadget site) and www.2StrokeBuzz.com . Next I would like to offer a humble "thanks" to Bryan and all those who have commented here. Many I know, love and respect... others who I may not have had the pleasure of meeting yet, but would surely share a pint with. The support means a LOT coming from my friends, peers and colleagues. Bryan, I am sorta of seeing a trend here now that you've said it. It's good to know I'll have steady employment for a couple of months out of the year, but I draw the line at tight, silver short-shorts and matching push-up halter top. Seriously though... the connection doesn't happen unless I have feelings for the product or at least for its potential. I remember thumbing through Tartarini sketches for upcoming designs with stars in my eyes; "Sure, the Dragster was nice but I want to bring THIS to America". Sadly it will never happen. I climbed on board with Carter because I saw so much potential in the SYM line-up both current and possible forthcoming (like the WoWow and Wolf). I was in it for the long haul, but even their #1 cheerleader isn't safe from "economics". There are a couple more brands with products for which I see potential. Who knows, I might be in <i>their</i> booth next year. I've also got a pair of special and dare I say "revolutionary" projects I am working on with my good friend and fellow Hooligan, Casey Cook (http://velvetoven.blogspot.com/). You remember him from his previous DIY project, the Flying Jackhammer (http://tinyurl.com/flyjakhmr). These projects are being designed as a challenge to the WORLD... A challenge to promote ingenuity and foster mindfulness of today's pressing issues around transportation... specifically movement with a lighter impact on the environment and the exclusive use of cleaner, non-oil based fuels. If this is something you're interested in supporting in some way, please shoot me an email with "The Project" in the title at thescooterscoop@gmail.com. I'm gonna be transportation-less for a little while. I sold Leia, my beautiful Vespa T5, to make room for the 5 SYMs in my garage. Those are going back this week. I am currently searching for my next opportunity among bouts of blogging, and playing Mr. Mom (I don't know how she does it, but helmets-off to YOU my dear Bella. http://highwirecreative.com/ ). The saga continues... Cheers! Steve Guzman @ TheScooterScoop My goodness! I’m reading all of this with barely a dry eye. First, to Bryan… Your 2StrokeBuzz has always been the roots of scooter press for me (and others around the world). I’m sure I’ve said it on more than one occasion, the two biggest influences for TheScooterScoop all those years ago were http://www.Engadget.com (a geek gadget site) and http://www.2StrokeBuzz.com .

Next I would like to offer a humble “thanks” to Bryan and all those who have commented here. Many I know, love and respect… others who I may not have had the pleasure of meeting yet, but would surely share a pint with. The support means a LOT coming from my friends, peers and colleagues.

Bryan, I am sorta of seeing a trend here now that you’ve said it. It’s good to know I’ll have steady employment for a couple of months out of the year, but I draw the line at tight, silver short-shorts and matching push-up halter top. Seriously though… the connection doesn’t happen unless I have feelings for the product or at least for its potential. I remember thumbing through Tartarini sketches for upcoming designs with stars in my eyes; “Sure, the Dragster was nice but I want to bring THIS to America”. Sadly it will never happen. I climbed on board with Carter because I saw so much potential in the SYM line-up both current and possible forthcoming (like the WoWow and Wolf). I was in it for the long haul, but even their #1 cheerleader isn’t safe from “economics”.

There are a couple more brands with products for which I see potential. Who knows, I might be in their booth next year. I’ve also got a pair of special and dare I say “revolutionary” projects I am working on with my good friend and fellow Hooligan, Casey Cook (http://velvetoven.blogspot.com/). You remember him from his previous DIY project, the Flying Jackhammer (http://tinyurl.com/flyjakhmr). These projects are being designed as a challenge to the WORLD… A challenge to promote ingenuity and foster mindfulness of today’s pressing issues around transportation… specifically movement with a lighter impact on the environment and the exclusive use of cleaner, non-oil based fuels. If this is something you’re interested in supporting in some way, please shoot me an email with “The Project” in the title at thescooterscoop@gmail.com.

I’m gonna be transportation-less for a little while. I sold Leia, my beautiful Vespa T5, to make room for the 5 SYMs in my garage. Those are going back this week. I am currently searching for my next opportunity among bouts of blogging, and playing Mr. Mom (I don’t know how she does it, but helmets-off to YOU my dear Bella. http://highwirecreative.com/ ).

The saga continues…

Cheers!
Steve Guzman @
TheScooterScoop

]]> By: pocphil http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6702 pocphil Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:12:04 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6702 Yeah it looks a lot like the bum deal he got from Italjet / Diamo / LS Motorsports just played out with a different distributor. If he was let go because he wasn't "making his numbers" I call foul. Which one of their "reps" created more buzz and more awareness for the SYM name than Guzman? If for no other reason than his dedication to the product and his commitment to their booth at Indy (he was there 100% of the time, bright eyed and bushy tailed) they should have kept him on. I don't currently have a SYM rep. They fired him months ago, which is a shame, because he worked with me getting units I needed and supporting my business. I question the need for reps. Too often it seems like they're more interested in opening another unqualified dealer in my city and less interested in helping me sell more of their product. Yeah it looks a lot like the bum deal he got from Italjet / Diamo / LS Motorsports just played out with a different distributor. If he was let go because he wasn’t “making his numbers” I call foul. Which one of their “reps” created more buzz and more awareness for the SYM name than Guzman? If for no other reason than his dedication to the product and his commitment to their booth at Indy (he was there 100% of the time, bright eyed and bushy tailed) they should have kept him on. I don’t currently have a SYM rep. They fired him months ago, which is a shame, because he worked with me getting units I needed and supporting my business. I question the need for reps. Too often it seems like they’re more interested in opening another unqualified dealer in my city and less interested in helping me sell more of their product.

]]> By: Chicagoscooterclub http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6701 Chicagoscooterclub Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:09:09 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6701 Guided word missiles.WOW. Steve's a great guy and is planning some fun for SXSW you can follow him on twitter. @thescooterscoop Guided word missiles.WOW.

Steve’s a great guy and is planning some fun for SXSW you can follow him on twitter.
@thescooterscoop

]]> By: henry_in_knoxville http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6700 henry_in_knoxville Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:50:58 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6700 My sympathies to Steve. I don't know Steve, nor did I attend the Expo, but I really want to share 1 recent experience w/ all readers: I drove 3 hours (Knoxville, TN to Greenville, SC) to attend Cycle World's big show. I was disappointed w/ the poor showing of scooter manufacturers. There was a small (unmanned) "scooter pavilion" set up w/ 1 Aprilia (SR50), 1 SYM, 2 Vectrix, 1 Buddy, etc. Maybe 8 bikes in all. On the other hand, I was thrilled to see Kymco's BIG booth & 4-5 friendly reps! (Surprisingly, BMW didn't show, when usually their booths are big). Taiwan is on the right track to try to bring all manufacturers together as a collective power. The non-scootering public has to be informed about the advantages of scootering in this bad economy. My sympathies to Steve. I don’t know Steve, nor did I attend the Expo, but I really want to share 1 recent experience w/ all readers: I drove 3 hours (Knoxville, TN to Greenville, SC) to attend Cycle World’s big show. I was disappointed w/ the poor showing of scooter manufacturers. There was a small (unmanned) “scooter pavilion” set up w/ 1 Aprilia (SR50), 1 SYM, 2 Vectrix, 1 Buddy, etc. Maybe 8 bikes in all. On the other hand, I was thrilled to see Kymco’s BIG booth & 4-5 friendly reps! (Surprisingly, BMW didn’t show, when usually their booths are big). Taiwan is on the right track to try to bring all manufacturers together as a collective power. The non-scootering public has to be informed about the advantages of scootering in this bad economy.

]]> By: Steve Williams http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/03/07/sympathy-for-the-scooter-industry/comment-page-1#comment-6699 Steve Williams Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:53:00 +0000 http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=4929#comment-6699 Steve does a great job and I'm certain he's been a powerful positive influence on the scooter buying world. I hope he finds another a better fit for his considerable talent and influence soon. There are a lot of great places on the Web that help the scooter manufacturers. I've always wondered why they are not more engaged. They have cozy relationships with the motorcycle publishing world. Why don't they engage online sites and communities more closely? I know that Scooter in the Sticks has directed more than a few people towards ownership. Steve Williams Steve does a great job and I’m certain he’s been a powerful positive influence on the scooter buying world. I hope he finds another a better fit for his considerable talent and influence soon.

There are a lot of great places on the Web that help the scooter manufacturers. I’ve always wondered why they are not more engaged. They have cozy relationships with the motorcycle publishing world. Why don’t they engage online sites and communities more closely? I know that Scooter in the Sticks has directed more than a few people towards ownership.

Steve Williams

]]>