We always hear about low-quality Chinese scooters, and how the Chinese scooter industry has little regard for intellectual property. POCphil sent us this email from Binqi, and we’d actually received the same email recently, but ignored it. Dealers and anyone with a scooter website get emails like this several times a week. This one deserves a good look, though, because it’s the perfect storm of absurdity:
Dear Customer,
Goodday, note you’re the dealer for Genuinescooters, we’re glad to share attached Binqi motorcycles with you. Dealer requested, any care or concern, please feel free to contact with us.
A few things worth pointing out:
- A quick Google search shows some of these models on import sites claiming to be DOT/EPA compliant, and what appear to be the same bikes for sale in America (via the internet, of course). Yet neither “Binqi” nor “Zhejiang Yuota,” the manufactuer, appear in the NHTSA’s database, meaning it’s unlikely they actually meet DOT/EPA/CARB specs. Compliance is generally the responsibility of an importer/distributor. In some cases, (Piaggio, for example) the manufacturer sets up an American subsidiary to serve as the importer and distributor (and to handle dealer relations, training, marketing, warranties and spare parts). Other brands (like PGO, TGB, and Benelli) find third-party importers to handle their products (like Genuine, Cobra Powersports, and Power Sports Factory). Foreign manufacturers selling directly to dealers is irresponsible and possibly illegal, yet most opportunistic fly-by-night importers don’t care about spare parts, warranties, or paperwork, they want a containerload of cheap scooters that they can sell quickly and forget about.
- Who knows if those “similar bikes” on the internet come from the same factory, or are built with the same components? You can’t compare apples to apples in the Chinese scooter industry, all the scooters look the same, yet they’re all different. How can you know the one you’re getting is a good one? You can’t. Even factories that make quality scooters for one brand might make third-rate deathtraps for another. Some brands have better reputations than others, and those reputations are built on quality and dealer support. In a situation like this, there are no checks or balances to ensure quality OR dealer support.
- “Gility” is the name of the Kymco Agility, if you don’t read english well enough to realize that spiral triangle is an “A.” Even worse, “Better than Best” is a slogan already in use by Kymco. These guys aren’t even trying.
- Even funnier, their logo is such a bad knockoff of Aprilia’s logo that it’s almost not noticeable. Until you notice that their website is a knockoff of Aprilia’s website.
- Even funnier than that, “Binqi” appears to be a name chosen to create confusion with the better-known Chinese brand “Qingqi.” (note the logo they use here is a knockoff of the Qingqi logo. (Read that whole thread, it’s funny!)
- See those wholesale prices? They range from $345 for a 50cc to $495 for their top-of the line 150cc. When you see a 150cc scooter selling for $1200 and think “What a bargain,” the truth is, you’re giving the “dealer/importer” (using those terms loosely) about $700, usually for doing just about nothing (well, to be fair, the shipping costs come out of that), which is why there are so many online scooter shops and questionable strip-mall scooter dealers sprouting up.
- The other $500, of course, goes to the manufacturer. It’s a safe bet they’re making 50% profit, too. That leaves $250 for the parts, labor, and resources to build the 150cc scooter that you paid $1200 for. Do you trust your life on public roads to a 150cc bike that cost $250 to make? The 50cc likely cost less than $200 to make. Think about all the parts and labor required to build consistently reliable and safe scooters… Tires, electrical systems, frames, body panels. fasteners, brakes and suspension, precision engine components and cases, not to mention the costs of engineering, design, compliance testing, and quality control… That can’t be done for $200, even in China.
First you hate freedom and now you hate Chinese. Next thing you know you’ll say you like soccer and that damn socialist brit-pop music.
Srsly, I’m going to learn Mandarin and go over there and have them make a scooter of my own design. It will be so rad that all other cloning will stop and everyone will start making it, and it alone. It will be only priced in SDRs at 1500, 2300 and 3000 unit limits on pretax msrp. They will all be gray with a roll of varying thickness pin stripe tape for you to decorate your purchase.
We wanted to do the “Caveat Emptor 150” it would be one of those that looks like a Mojito / Joker and we would only do them in Red, White and Green.
I figured I could sell around 5000 of them before anyone caught on…
Someone needs to go through all the basic chinese bike styles and give them official 2SB names for reference, and cite examples of each.
There’s The Vino Clone, The Joker Clone, The “Chrome Verizon”, the “Hockey Mask,” the “Money Bike…”
These are the same asshats that spammed the ModernBuddy.com forums. I banned them twice, with email warnings, then they started spamming members via PM. I banned them again and sent an email threatening to report them to every federal agency and international commerce body on the planet. That seems to shut them up.
I think a 2sb taxonomy of Chinese clones and models is a great idea and you should get to work on it ASAP. Or maybe hire an intern!
joker/baron clone/turtle 50cc = turdle 50cc
feel free to use that.
Taiwan, Japan and Korea are all represented on that list. I say if they don’t stand up for their IP, why should we care? Junk is junk, under any skin. Maybe we should look to what is not cloned and what that means?
That’s an interesting point, Brooke. Maybe just no one wants a Cosa or a Sfera but you. : )
My parents have a cat named Binky, but we never really got around to making an official spelling, maybe I should suggest Binqi.
I would never want a Cosa. But what about other bikes that are popular but go uncloned. The ET2/4 is still not cloned (though copied in spirit). Or other modern Piaggio? The Yamaha Zuma/BW isn’t really cloned. I saw that one at Indy a few years ago but none (old or newer Zuma) in the wild. Kymco Super 9 or People 50? Yamaha Neos? Honda Giorno or Julian???!! Honda X8R? Yamaha Aerox? Peugeot Speefight 2? Aprlia SR50? Top sellers, no clones. Is it only the bikes that are predominantly made in China? Was the Cobra made there? What about the Daelim clones?
I think the modern Vespas would just be too expensive to clone, with the huge metal presses and monocoque frame.
I bet a lot of the clones you see at Dealer Expo (BW, Ruckus, Big Ruckus) and a lot of other clones are popular in third-world Asia but no one dares bring them here because the importer would be sued in American courts. I think the Vino design was already ubiquitous by the time scooters became popular here (and remember, the Vino 125 didn’t even come out until AFTER the TNG version), and it was just being made and imported by so many companies that Yamaha couldn’t possibly attack them all, but if one specific importer popped in with a Ruckus clone, Honda would tear them apart.
You can’t stop China from making them, but you can fight an American company that’s bringing them in. That’s another reason a lot of these chinese companies want nothing to do with U.S. distribution or infrastructure, they just want to unload bikes and disappear.
It also just comes down to engines, they’re cranking out a few different engines, and most of them are based on 80s Honda GY6 design. Even knocking something off requires resources, so they like to stick to that platform. You gotta imagine so many GY6 knockoffs are being made, they must be almost free now. No one wants to be the first to knock off a LEADER engine, but someone will sooner or later, then everyone else will rip them off, or buy from them, the price will drop to nothing, and that’ll be the default for the next ten years.
Tube frames and bodywork are easy and cheap to copy and then modify and change. But doing that with every engine that comes along would require actual engineering and precision tooling.
Also, I can totally see you on a Cosa.
Brooke is more of a Hexagon guy, I’d be the one on a Cosa.
I was drooling over the “Turtle”, but then noticed the “Quicksand” is much faster! That must be why it is “Quick”! But I’m only going to buy if they throw in an extra 2% spare parts.
IT’S TIME FOR YOU TO CANCEL MY COMMENTS? Hurry up.
I do not know why to make you so angry.
It is very difficulty season2008-2009, lots of companies broke down in China, same situation all the world…. Yes, a company should have the society responsibility to its employes. we think over nights to find the ways…
Marketing emails to Motorcycle dealers to see if more business oppotunities mutually, shops are more difficulty to sell expensive motorcycles as people are no more rich as before, it’s wrong? to brand our logo, it’s wrong? not a company comes so famous at beginnings. Don’t you still remember the childhood of his forum? your behavior is incorrect do not like a gentleman.
You do NOT know chinese motorcycles, 80% chinese motorcycles (120,000,000pcs) riding on road in China are at RMB3000-3500, Not safe? Do you know how many Chinese motorcycle exported to overseas? 10,000,000pcs yearly. BINQIMotorcycle quotes TURTLE 150cc at $475, the profits is at 6-8% ($40 each model), most Chinese motorcycle 150cc offer FOB price at $460-$530; So, you have the question of after-service? Retailers & dealers are responsible to service or he will be knocked out from market. There’s no foolish customer to buy a motorcycle without service…You have 10000RMB in hand to buy a YAMAHA to ride 10years. You have 3500RMB to buy local motorcycles to ride 7years, Sorry, you do not know china motorcycles and its cost. SO, your comments of this point is a joke.
American market we sell 80000pcs yearly under our customers logo, search YAMATI?
Anyway, Thanks for your ads!
Daniel Chan
IT’S TIME FOR YOU TO CANCEL MY COMMENTS? Hurry up.
I do not know why to make you so angry.
It is very difficulty season2008-2009, lots of companies broke down in China, same situation all the world…. Yes, a company should have the society responsibility to its employes. we think over nights to find the ways…
Marketing emails to Motorcycle dealers to see if more business oppotunities mutually, shops are more difficulty to sell expensive motorcycles as people are no more rich as before, it’s wrong? to brand our logo, it’s wrong? not a company comes so famous at beginnings. Don’t you still remember the childhood of his forum? your behavior is incorrect do not like a gentleman.
You do NOT know chinese motorcycles, 80% chinese motorcycles (120,000,000pcs) riding on road in China are at RMB3000-3500, Not safe? Do you know how many Chinese motorcycle exported to overseas? 10,000,000pcs yearly. BINQIMotorcycle quotes TURTLE 150cc at $475, the profits is at 6-8% ($40 each model), most Chinese motorcycle 150cc offer FOB price at $460-$530; So, you have the question of after-service? Retailers & dealers are responsible to service or he will be knocked out from market. There’s no foolish customer to buy a motorcycle without service…You have 10000RMB in hand to buy a YAMAHA to ride 10years. You have 3500RMB to buy local motorcycles to ride 7years, Sorry, you do not know china motorcycles and its cost. SO, your comments of this point is a joke.
American market we sell 80000pcs yearly under our customers logo, search YAMATI?
Anyway, Thanks for your ads!
Daniel Chan
Daniel, I am familiar with Yamati, and Power Sports Factory, who import them. I know they buy bikes from Qianjiang, though they probably have other vendors. From what I can tell, Qianjiang is somehow related to Quinqi and you may actually be related to Quinqi. But who could keep track of all these overlapping manufacturers and their similar-looking product? And if you are part of Quinqi and/or Qianjang, why not develop your relationships with your dozens of current importers instead of trying to compete with them by adding more importers?
I may have overestimated the manufacturer markup, but looking at Yamati’s retail pricing, I probably UNDERESTIMATED the amount of importer markup, I’m sure PSF is thrilled that you’re giving consumers an idea how little they pay for their Yamati bikes. I actually have a QJ Benelli that I’m testing for them and it’s a pretty decent bike, but not all QJ bikes are of that quality, and even QJ’s cheaper bikes are better than a lot of other chinese scooters that are sold here.
I know you’re doing what you need to do to survive in China’s business climate. And your tactics will likely bring in some quick cash from America, sooner or later. But the Chinese market is not the American market, and I think most Chinese manufacturers could use a lot more research into American business, traffic, culture, scooter market, laws, standards, and ethics before you have any chance of long-term success here.
illnoise, here at The Scooter Lounge in Utah, last year, for id purposes, we finally decided to come up with names for the generic chinese scooters. We limited the ones we actually named to the most common ones… i’ll use the less offensive “crap” form of the first part of the scooter name…
The MC-04-150, FIJI-150, or as named in the above ad the “falcon” is…
The Crapsport 150!
The MC-17-150, SICILY-150, etc. etc. (not pictured in the above ad) is…
The Retrocrap 150!
The MC-16T-150, Capri, or as named in the above ad, the “turtle” with the awful handlebars is…
The Crapbox 150!
And last but not least, most any maxi-ish chinese scooter, such as (but not limited to) the MC-54 and similar to the “action” listed above is…
The Maxicrap 150 or 250!
Aside from being funny (at least to us), it has actually helped us refer to the scooters. Hope you get a good laugh.
Lee
Whoa. I gotta give props to Daniel Chan for stepping up and representin’. That said, the Chinese have lots to learn about western capitalism. The Chinese clone manufacturers, in their fight to survive, are cutting their own throats. If Econ 101 taught me anything, it’s that products that are indistinguishable from each other are differentiated on one and one thing only. Price. It’s a race to the bottom, man. Look up the term “perfect competition” in Wikipedia and you’ll get a right proper education. The biggest problem with perfect competition for the manufacturer is that, in the end, there is no profit. Zero. None. Zilch.
So all those Chinese clone manufacturers are engaged in a zero sum game. Nobody will ever get ahead and nobody will ever make any money. Since cost is the only differentiator, it is an eternal quest to find profit by reducing expenses. However, since everyone else is doing the same thing, profits keep on dropping.
You might as well just take your money and sit on it rather than fritter it away selling garbage bikes to unappreciative consumers who will never pay enough to make the long-term profit.
Just sayin’.